STRAIGHT TALK – Flag Waving at a JOURNEY Concert

Arnel Pineda is truly one of a kind. His transformation from an obscure rocker playing gigs at Hongkong nightclubs to a lead singer for a band like Journey is like winning a lottery jackpot. I could even say a miracle. Make it climbing Mount Everest. Filling the shoes of Steve Perry, the former lead singer of Journey is no easy feat. Arnel Pineda’s new job is to resurrect Journey’s historic past and better yet, catapult the band into new heights ! And thanks to YouTube, for without it, Journey had no idea who he was. The video caption of one of his gigs where he sang a Journey hit aroused the interest of the band. A case of self-advertisement that worked – big time at that. After an audition the band overwhelmingly voted him in. Pineda was shocked at how terribly good he was. In his words, he described the incredulity akin to “ dreaming while you are awake and it is happening”.

The lady announcer had goose bumps listening to Arnel’s electrifying delivery. Plain awesome. You got it Virginia. Journey is embarking on a world tour with Arnel at the helm. This is HUGE ! Incredibly HUGE.

Now here’s a controversy that had people play tug of war at an online forum and of all unlikely places, a Pinoy boxing online forum 🙂 I didn’t quite get to the origin of the debate but it had to do with Pinoy flag waving at a Journey concert. Some readers were aghast at the supposedly tacky display of patriotism at the Journey concert in Vegas, where a patron waving a Pinoy flag handed it to Arnel who reciprocated by waving the flag and handing it back to the owner.

Question : was the flag waving appropriate ?

Let’s delineate a concert from a boxing match, where the protagonists are representing their respective country’s flag. They walk to the boxing ring wrapped in their country’s flags. In fact the represented countries are honored by singing their national anthems prior to the fight. Here’s the main difference – a boxing match is a competition – a concert isn’t.

Is it considered social ineptness for someone to effusively display Pinoy pride at a Journey concert? Perhaps we must backtrack a bit and ask the question – what was Arnel Pineda back in Pinas prior to his discovery ? If he is that good and he is damn good, why wasn’t he a superstar? Why was he doing gigs in Hongkong nightclubs and not in prime time TV shows back in his country? Was he a victim of discrimination because of his rather unpopular rock music genre or his lack of mestizo looks? Was it a case of superstardom from the national to the global stage? A case of accidental discovery ?

Die hard Journey fans who welcome the resurgence of the group may very well be color blind but I am sure they would be asking these questions when they see hordes of his fans in waving the Pinoy flag in unabashed adulation. Ok, flag waving is innocuous. Heck, you can even streak with the multicolor Pinoy flag tattooed in your body. Whatever . There’s silly and better ways to support Arnel and see him in that spotlight in the many years to come. It’s your choice. But most importantly, allow the man to be himself, minus the distractions and controversies. Watching Journey concerts and shouting to the top of your voice or buying Journey records as a sign of support won’t be a bad idea at all.

What’s your take on this if I may ask?

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88 Responses

  1. I agree the flag waving is innocuous. But I also thought it was tacky, especially as you pointed out done at a concert. Actually, I felt it was an “at your face” gesture of pride as typically seen at a competition like boxing or the Olympics! I really felt it was improper and possibly cause some backlashing from unwanted parties on a single race. You are right there are other subtle ways to do it. Now…this question of yours may start some competition on its own. If only I have a flag of my own to wave….hmmm!

  2. i think it’s improper of if he did it, he should have made sure that he’ll tell the productions about doing it so that at least it becomes part of the program.

    also my opinion, maybe it’s also on the timing when you’ll really be discovered by people. it’s not always the contests.

  3. I also think it is improper. I don’t know, but it doesn’t fit in a concert setting,

  4. Nothing wrong with flag waving. Sometimes people on online forums just need something to complain about. 😉

    Arnel’s awesome. If I was him, I’d milk that Journey gig and do my own projects after a while. His band (was it Zoo?) was pretty good. 😀

  5. They’re making a mountain of a molehill on this one. It’s no big deal to me as long as you paid to get in to the concert. That’s my take 🙂

  6. “”The video caption of one of his gigs in Hongkong where he sang a Journey hit aroused the interest of the band.””” pls do your research first before making it a big deal… arnel pineda’s video from you tubetube singing with his former band “the zoo” was taken during his gigs in the philippines..and not in hongkong.. he was doing gigs in hongkong late 90’s but went back in the philippines in 2000, ….

  7. On his younger days, with his AMO band, he was once a fixture of Pinoy T.V..

    According to him, his packaging was one of the main reasons why he did not make it big in the philippines.

    For me, waving a flag seems pathetic but then again, it was a rock concert and in rock concerts, everything is possible.

    Pinoys in the U.S.and all over are supporting Arnel very well. Mr. Ross Valory even said that he could not believe that right there in Chile, Arnel’s first big gig, there were Pinoy contingents. In the U.S. tour, there are always 30% to 50% pinoy in attendance.

    By far, Arnel is the most controversial front man of Journey. On his early days with Journey, he got all kinds of bashing, derogatory remarks and all sorts of racial slur specially from those die-hard Steve Perry fans.

    But then, thanks to the hordes of the so-called “Pinoy fanatics” or whatever and true journey fans, they are always ready and on the look out to defend him.

    The only thing that I do not understand is why some Pinoys think that they own him. Also, bakit lagi na lang kapag merong pinoy na who make it big time, parang carried away ang maraming Pinoys. Ang pakiramdam ko tuloy, up to now malaki pa rin ang inferiority complex ng mga Pinoys.

    Are Pinoys not capable of being great or not at par with all the other nationalities here on earth? Ito ang big question ko.

  8. …Heck, you can even streak with the multicolor Pinoy flag tattooed in your body…Naku! pero the whole world will find out and see the “tiny little flag pole” of the pinoy streaker!

    In some ways, us Pinoys get a little tacky with our show of patriotism sometimes. For most Pinoys, pag naka labas na sa Pilipinas, libre na sila at nawawala na ang inhibitions nila. Nagiging vocal na rin sila sa mga opinyon nila sa politika sa bayan at sa pagiging makabayan…bigla!

    kaya pasensiya na lang muna kung medyo “out of control” ang ating mga kababayan sa kanilang pagiging makabayan at “pride” sa pagiging Pinoy…para bang naghahanap ka ng identity pag nasa ibang bansa ka na nakatira.

    At saka pala, ang Las Vegas ay paborito ng mga Pinoy na puntahan kasi maraming bargains na kainan at lodgings. Tsaka, lumalaki na rin ang papyulasyon ng mga pinoy sa Nevada!

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  10. a lot of other questions here. my hubby’s caucasian & i’ve asked his take on the flag waving. he didn’t care & he said it’s just fine! that’s how pinoys and even other nationalities show their pride! my take only2share, not superstar in the phils? in anywhere also, u have to know the right people. ap just met a new manager around 2007. working in hk, coz u earn more than in the phils, just like other talented, educated artists or professionals working aboard. there’s discrimnation everywhere. i don’t think ap’s case is discrimination. now, this might be called ‘fate/destiny’ (god’s will). w/o zoo, w/o noel gomez’ yt posts ap’s not gonna found by neal. but still in the end, it’s ap’s pure talent that made everything happened for real!

    • When F4 had their concerts in the Philippines, many fans from other countries came to Manila – Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia–waving their flags and it didn’t matter to Pinoys. It was even rumored that majority of the crowd weren’t Filipinos.

      They’re making an issue on a non-issue. It’s the Pinoys who say bad about past lead singers o Journey that irks me. WHy? because in the end, it’s Arnel who’s gonna carry the consequences of these misdeeds.

      • Well that’s appropriate because they came from different countries. What was inappropriate was that just because the vocalist of journey is a filipino, you would start flag waving and go pinoy pride and shit. It’s like, you’re forgetting about the band, you’re only focusing on Arnel Pineda himself.

        Unless all members of the band were Filipinos playing in Vegas, then all of the flag waving shit wouldn’t even matter

  11. I think its not bad to wave a flag even in a concert thats his country flag we cant do anything about it we must be glad that he got picked by the Journey OUR favorite band and he make the Journey begin again :D..

  12. The only thing that I do not understand is why some Pinoys think that they own him. Also, bakit lagi na lang kapag merong pinoy na who make it big time, parang carried away ang maraming Pinoys. Ang pakiramdam ko tuloy, up to now malaki pa rin ang inferiority complex ng mga Pinoys.

    Are Pinoys not capable of being great or not at par with all the other nationalities here on earth? Ito ang big question ko.

    I’m with you “myepinoy”, if you go to arnelpineda.ning.com most of the posters there are very arrogant they feel like they know Arnel from head to foot (as if they know him from birth). One poster even commented one time that most of the people in that site are plastic or pathetic because when Arnel was still at Bagaberde or Hardrock Cafe they won’t even go there to buy beer so to watch him and now that he is “BIG” as if they own him and he knows them well.

    About the “flag waving” and “I’m proud to be Pinoy” is very inappropriate during those concerts but who am I to stop these people. They have the right to express them selves and speak their minds but I just wish they’ll do it in the right place. PEACE!

    • You have a point but then again, out of the newly Arnel fans, how many can afford to go to Hard Rock, or how many are not into music lounges or even night life?

      You have a point that some Filipinos think they owe Arnel but I don’t think it is fair to generalize the new Arnel fans. Some are really there who recognize his talent first before anything else. it’s just that they never had the opportunity to have seen him prior to Journey. Think about the people outside Olongapo and Manila.

  13. I got a Jose Rizal wallpaper on my pc, (last year a mosaic Philippine flag). I opened up youtube and discovered Arnel. That was March 08. I was enjoying the clip then suddenly a guy just waved the Phil flag all across the screen, the first thing that came out of my mouth is “WTF!!!”. “What is happening?…Is this a Pinoy convention?” I saw a lot of white heads and the clip title says Journey Las Vegas Concert. So this is definitely NOT a big Pinoy dinner party.

    I’m definitely more patriotic than others but when I saw the clip, that flag waving was so out of place.

    But then again…people…who can blame that silly guy. He did what he felt was right at that moment and that is simply pure Pinoy pride. That guy maybe saying to himself at that moment “wala na ako pakialam sa inyong lahat, basta ang saya saya ko ngayon…I LOVE YOU ARNEL yooohoo!!!” All sweat and tears.

    We rarely have someone like Arnel to be proud of as a community. It is natural for anyone to be ecstatic on something that is difficult to comprehend or so hard to achieve. It is basic human nature di ba?

    Analogy: Why soccer fans go wild with one goal or near misses on this so boring game? Because it is so f*** hard to get!

    That analogy is the same thing with pinoy pride. Finding someone or something to be proud of is a rare thing. And when that moment comes, we just get over the top with pride.

  14. Flag-waving is a definite no-no. It blocks the view of people behind you, unless you’re seated at the very last row!

  15. …if the filipinos aren’t allowed to waive their flags tell the brits and chileans not to waive their flags at a journey concert too (and i’ve seen them many times)

  16. there’s nothing wrong with flag waving, have you seen a concert of Ricky Martin in New York? People were waving Puerto Rico’s Flag too, and not only one, there were a lot of Flags, and it was not a contest too… Don’t make this issue a big deal, and it’s not even a controversy, You sound like a filipino and I think you are a Filipino, Huwag kang masyadong O.A. pare!!!!

    I’ve never read any reviews from a person who’s not a filipino that made the flag waving an issue. Only Filipino reviewers are making this an issue, there’s another guy named leonard who’s also making a review of journey and posing as if he’s good looking, talking about that flag again, and trys to say that he was just forced to buy the album out of curiosity. It’s just jealousy that a filipno like arnel, who came all the way from the philippines is now with journey, and why not them who are Fil-ams or can speak with much better accent, well shame on you guys…. There’s no big deal with our Flag!!!

  17. Its, a no, no! We should favor the band, not AP alone. If not for JOURNEY’s effort, we will not see AP in this light. Besides its AP’s glory. Any stupid actions we do, will reflect on AP. Lets not ruin it for the guy…besides, why dont we see American flags? then again, its not a boxing match.

  18. To ayawgloria@yahoo.com :

    Read my lips :

    “Ok, flag waving is innocuous” . It also means
    “OK, flag waving is harmless”. Dude, better brush up on your English 🙂

    Ricky Martin represents himself, an American-Puerto Rican . Who really cares if people wave Pinoy flags at a Martin Nievera concert?

    Controversy also means ” argument”. Check that online boxing forum URL about flag waving and you will understand where I was coming from.

    Thanks for your comment although you’re the one who is acting OA it appears 🙂

  19. i really don’t get it. this flagwaving hadbeen the issue for a while now. but the most noticeable group that does the complaining are the filipinos themselves… WHY? what’s so uncool about waving your own flag if it represents YOU! imagine this scenario, 10,000 faces of different faces with different skin colors, it’s a sea of multiculturalism. how would you expect arnel pineda to identify his own people in the audience if not for the flag? filipinos look like mexicans, chinese chileans and so on. come on, that’s not a big deal. let’s ALL celebrate the rebirth of journey with arnel pineda at the helm! PEACE to everyone!

  20. I don’t have a problem with flag waving. It’s rock and roll, you can do anything you want (as long as you’re not hurting anyone). Women take off their tops, couples make out, smoke pot, people do all kinds of stuff cause it’s rock and roll. If you can’t stand it go away or go to an opera.

  21. hey, you maybe good in english, but you don’t have something that we need, “common sense”, and don’t try to change the issue to you being good in english. And why I mentioned that it’s not a controversy? coz it’s not even fair to debate about it, it’s our Flag, and I want people to know that they shouldn’t even care about it, it’s not a big deal, so take this Flag Waving issue to rest. And OA? yes, people like you are reacting too much on this, american reviewers would even take this as an honor by the added journey fans. I admit that I am one of the new journey fans, coz I honestly don’t even know that journey exist before Arnel came in. And shame on you? Yes, shame on you coz you’re a filipino! and don’t even try to deny it, coz I know how filipinos characterized themselves, English? Damn! shame on you again!

  22. If there are thousands of people attending the concerts of all different culture and backgrounds, I feel that it is not appropriate to wave your national flag. Why? Not only it is a distraction, but it can only provoke racism. We all understand that you are proud of your Arnel Pineda and waving flags are symbols of patriotism. What about the people behind you who could from Korea, Middle East, Europe etc.? Why can’t they wave their flags too? Just enjoy the music!!! I’d rather not see any flags waving around.

    If they perform in Philippines, it will be a great sight to see everyone waving their flags..because they are in their homeland. You honor the man…Arnel Pineda.

  23. Hasn’t it ever occurred to anybody that AP would have waved any flag that was handed to him while he was singing? Try handing him a US flag, I’m sure he wouldn’t hesitate waving it. Has anybody done that?

  24. See BW, what did I tell you. It is now a full blown competition. Beating our breast and waving our flags. Oh I finally found my flag, it is the U.N. Flag. No matter what that 10,000 faces are, they are THE AUDIENCE and they are having a rockin good time. I personally can’t tell what AP is looking for from them, only he can. GO AP, GO JOURNEY!!!

  25. Flag waving is tacky tacky tacky. You are right this is not a concert and not a boxing match or the Olympics. I would support waving a flag if it was a competition wherein he was representing the Philippines. We should support him by attending the Journey concerts, buying the Journey cds/dvds and downloading his music via walmart.com

  26. I mean this is a concert and not a boxing match or the Olympics.

  27. To : Ayawgloria Gustoerap the Pinoy patriot 👿

    I wanted to have the pleasure of deleting your post and leave you gritting your teeth in anger, but on second thought, I didn’t. THere you go – you can have you spiel now and get it off your chest 🙂

    Know what, I expect a boor or two like your person to show up in this thread, amidst the enlightened and respectful people who are willing to step out of their comfort zone to discuss a sensitive issue in an intelligent and professional manner without spewing outright anger.

    “The size of a person can be measured by the things that makes him angry” – that’s you kid.

    You need good wank- that will cool you down. Stay in your room and don’t let mommy hear it – OK? :mrgreen:

  28. I always say — live and let die. To each guy his own style.

    Although flag waving is usually for multinational contests/ competitions, it could be a unique take and siguro my reaction if I were Arnel would be delight.

    Will I flag wave myself? In a concert? Uhmmm. Maybe I will give him a sampaguita lei. Not doable ha, outside of Asia. Well, let me think of something else. haha

    Some people might say, though that flagwaving may be an OA gesture indicative that proudly Pinoy moments are few and far between.

  29. I’m not sure what country in Europe (maybe Ireland) where they had a concert, he wrapped himself with the flag that was handed to him. He’s not the first Journey singer to wave a flag in a concert just to give you a history. Augeri has done it as well as Soto. Have you seen Lynard Skynard concert before? How come nobody makes a big deal about them wrapping a Confederacy flag around the lead singer? Or the Brits with their Union Jack? Now a Pinoy waves a little flag and it becomes a big deal. Does his race have anything to do with this big hoopla? I hope not.

  30. I think there is nothing wrong if the flag of the country where the concert is taking place is handed to the singer. There are sensitivities when a flag of a different country is given though. I think Filipinos are worried about what non Filipinos will feel if Pineda gets a Philippine flag in the US. That is the main point of the debate, that it is good for Pineda but others may feel insulted.

  31. To Henry:

    Point well taken. The concert was at Dublin, Ireland…Irish flag no problem! I think there may have been another show in Scotland and he had the Scottish flag. In other words, he was at the audience’s home turf! Philippine flag if the concert was at the Philippines definitely pride heaven! Besides, the closest Journey got to the Philippines was at the Tokyo concert. The venue defines the appropriate gestures.

    It just has that feeling similar to a TV commercial a few years ago where the frontman of a band shouted “We love you Detroit”! And they were in Chicago!

    Lynard Skynard confederate flag, to me is a little more extreme considering the history behind it. Don’t know much about Lynard Skynard, I would guess there are no African Americans in the audience. It’s like waving a Nazi flag in a Jweish convention. Totally thumbs down. Race card, I hope not too. But there are billions of people in the world we can’t speak for.

  32. I don’t see any problem with Filipino fans waving the Filipino flag at Journey’s concerts. It’s just normal. Americans and Europeans do it all the time. Several British bands have used the Union Jack either as an outfit or as an album cover. I don’t see any reason as to why we Filipinos can’t do the same. Just my two cents. 🙂

  33. I think that Filipino flag waving at a rock concert is tacky. I agree with another poster here — why not a Sampaguita (Philippine national flower)lei? If everybody bring Sampaguita lei and wave it around, give it away, sell it along with the t-shirts, imagine what a beautiful, sweet smelling concert that would be. Everybody will be in peaceful spirits.
    The flag waving thing though — I cringe when I see that because it’s not just a little flag — on a hat or a lapel or stuck in an exotic drink glass. Often times it is a flag the size of which I imagine would be used when leading a charge or cavalry or like in the cover of Coldplay CD Viva La Vida. Has the Philippines won some kind of war or competition? People are using Arnel to symbolize what has been overlooked in the American entertaiment industry for many years — Filipino talent. Not even Leah Salonga has reached the same level of fame and acclaim he has received in such a short period of time. This man is not only extremely talented, he’s got a charisma that has nothing to do with race, height, color, language, etc. I see it even in his YT videos. Charice Pempengco has the same thing. They are the real deal, God-given talent, hands down, bottom line. The Filipino tv shows are the worst and they can’t even decide if they are going to speak English or Tagalog. For years, this man’s talent has been ignored in the Filipino media and now he is an icon that even Miss Sharon Punyeta is fawning all over him.

    Enjoy the music and let the man be.

    Peace y’all

  34. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with waving the Philippine flag. Most of those people who disagreed about that were Filipinos. If you are patriotic, probably you will do that as well. What bothers me about most (not all)Filipinos are those who say they are proud of being Pinoy and yet they colored their hair and made them look like Caucasians.

  35. There is nothing wrong waving a flag in a concert!!! Have you been in a concert before???

  36. I ask my friends and colleagues who are of different ethnicities and surprisingly no one had a problem with it (or are they just being polite). But in any case test yourself with this question: If Mick Jagger is performing in the US and someone from the crowd handed him a little British flag and hoisted it for 2 seconds and return it back to the owner, would you be offended? In most likelihood what you feel is the same way as other ethnicities when Pineda hoisted that little Phil. flag. Make sense?

  37. THOSE WHO SAID THAT FLAG WAIVING ARE TACKY BLAH BLAH ARE IGNORANT AND UNPATRIOTIC! Brining the Philippine flag to Arnel’s concert signifies the Filipinos pride to Arnel’s success, plain and simple. Don’t make it complicated! I went to a Boston Red Sox baseball game at Fenway Park abd I saw a lot of flag waiving Dominican fans of Manny Ramirez who are obviously from the Dominican Republic andJapanese fans waiving the flag of Japan for Red Sox new pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka. Yes it is a competition but Red Sox are not representing the countries of the Dominican Republic nor Japan but why are they waiving their contries’ flags? – The answer is the same reason why there are some Filipinos went to Arnel’s concerts and waive the Filipino flag -THEY ARE PROUD PEOPLE, well I am! and I will bring my Philippine flag which I ordered online and bring it to Arnel’s concert here in Boston soon. END OF DISCUSSION!

  38. Here’s my take. DON’T BRING THE FLAG. It covers two things, a. if you are not sure that you are only idolizing Arnel and not his fellow band members b. for political correctness. We are the world and music knows no barriers, gender, country nor race. PERIOD.

  39. the ones who climbed it to the top are the ones who usually start from the bottom.

    charice Pempingco and Arnel Pineda, they are perfect examples of true talented individuals in the Phil. music industry.

    “dreaming while you are awake and it is happening”..very true.

    nice site.:)

  40. Frankly, Pinoy flag waving is never a problem if Arnel was touring with his former band Zoo or if Journey is an all Pinoy band, like the Rolling Stones are all Brits. Journey is already established band that is trying to renew its glory days from the days of Steve Perry. It already has an image entrenched in the minds of its fans. If thousands attend a Journey concert today, it’s because they know the band. Now, reality tells me that much that we want to believe that Journey fans aren’t color blind, that’s no guarantee. Many will say – what’s this brown dude doing in there?

    Being a Pinoy, we want Arnel to do good. To be safe, let him be himself, a great and capable singer that he is. Don’t rub it in, keep the pride under our hats. Lets wait our turn to wave the Pinoy flags to our heart’s content at the Areneta Coliseum, when Journey visits Manila. PEACE 🙂

  41. i see nothing wrong in the flag waving. and i don’t see nothing wrong saying one does not like it. each to his own. but to pull Arnel down because of it, that’s practically inappropriate.

  42. Arnel waved the flag himself. It’s his choice. NO big deal to me. If you wanna crucify him for that, it’s your problem.

  43. I think the problem with some of our kababayans is they’re too perfectionist and too harsh on their fellow Pinoys once they get to the US. They’re too concious and concerned about how other ethnicities may or may not think of us. The US is a free county people, don’t confine yourself in a box. Rock on.

  44. To John:

    If you are watching and enjoying Boston Red Sox games, I will assume you are an American citizen. Then I assume you have pledge your allegiance to the USA and the US Flag. Then why are you rambling about patriotism to the Philippines. You are the IGNORANT one! Sure you can be proud to be a Filipino, but that is totally different from patriotism.

    Now if you are an immigrant, then I have no case because you still have not commited yourself to this country.

    So please leave your derogatory remarks to yourself, you US ingrate!

  45. To John:

    And one more thing, next time you go to your beloved Boston Red Sox games look at that flag that is waving on the mast. And tell me which national athem you sing.

  46. NOTE :

    Guys, this forum is a debate about the attitude of Arnel’s fans and NOT Arnel himself who we all support. Please stay in line with this thought. TKS… BW

    Here’s a question – is to OKAY to fly a Philippine flag at your front yard? I’m referring to Fil-Ams and Pinoy Canadians living in North America.

    The point I am making is – is there a difference with flying the Pinoy flag at your backyard, at a sporting event and at a Journey concert? Or must we treat the sensitivities of each situation diffrently?

  47. BW I don’t think you can leave out Arnel out of this because he’s the reason why those guys showed up with the flag in the first place. But going back to your question, the US is a free country and I don’t have a problem with expressing one’s right to display whatever flag they wish to. I don’t think there is a law that prohibits that, in fact I’ve seen Americans burn the US flag, of course that’s an extreme case. I have a question for you though, seems like in every concert date Arnel always acknowledge only Pinoys in the audience, and not other ethnicities, is that OK? Obviously he wants to tell the world he’s Pinoy every chance he gets and it seems to be OK with the rest of the band, cause he does it every time they perform.

  48. Henry – I’m really not sure if Arnel orchestrates the actions of those people who bring the flags. Perhaps he is responding to those people in a gracious way.

    Well, one can fly the Pinoy flag in his front yard and risk the ire of his community esp if he is a US or Canadian citizen. I would imagine him cleaning dog shit in his front yeard every morning. It really boils down to political correctness.

    The Black Eyed Peas who sing Pinoy songs which is part of their repertoire because one of the members is Pinoy – that’s the identity they want to portray – thats Ok.

    A question to ask is , do non- Pinoy JOURNEY fans enjoy the Pinoy flag waving? YES? NO? It would be foolhardy to assume 100% approval I would think. If so, is there a need for political correctness? Who would benefit from such political correctness? Not us but Arnel.

    Whichever side you’re on, we are all guilty of hypocrisy. Fil-ams shouting Pinoy patriotism when they are US citizens, not OK to put Pinoy flag in your front yard but ok at a Journey concert, and the list goes on and on..

    Lemme ask the question . What does someone gain by waving the flag anyways? To tell the world that Arnel is Pinoy? Don’t they know he is Pinoy? To tell the world the Pinoy is astig? To feel good about it? If someone doesn’t feel like doing it, does it mean he is unpatriotic ?

    in the end bro. this is just a debate amongst us and in the end, every one will do what he feels like. There’s really no right and wrong answer here. It is nice to discuss – no need to kill each other for this. Just like what a previous posters commented – to be safe for arnel’s sake and if you are not sure, don’t do it.

  49. Sa palagay ko kapag nag-wagayway ka ng watawat mo sa lupang banyaga, dapat ay iwagayway mo din ang watawat nila.

  50. Done in bad taste in my opinion. His being the sole Pinoy in an all-American (and obviously all-white) band is enough vindication of his talent, why overdo and complicate things by waving the Philippine flag in front of the thousands of Journey fans? Any hardcore Journey fan would by now know AP’s nationality; remember, the internet is just a click away. So I really don’t see the need for an “in your face” reminder to the world that he is a Pinoy… lumalabas lang na kulang tayo sa pansin.

  51. BW. I wanna make it clear I don’t do that myself and I don’t intend to wave the Phil flag soon, but I don’t object to those people who does it, because they’re entitled to it. I live in LA and I see the Mexican flag here displayed almost on a daily basis and it doesn’t offend me for some reason, I don’t know man, maybe it’s just me. If you’re concerned for Arnel’s sake, I am too, then he should stop those Pinoy patriotic chants, cause it fuels the Pinoys in the crowd. I was actually at that concert (at PH) and saw that when it happened cause I was seated a few rows from the stage. I didn’t feel proud nor ashame seeing that. And I think that is probably the same reaction that the non-Pinoy crowd felt. It’s like wala lang ba. It’s a rock concert, people do stuff and most people view it as such. Thanks for this topic, you did a good job BW.

  52. When Journey hired Arnel they gained millions of new fans. Fillipinos are justly proud of him. I’m an American and I say: Wave your flag all you want, I see no harm in it as long as you don’t disrespect mine. By the way, I’m proud of him too, and Charice, and Charlie Green, and David Achulata and, and, and

  53. Henry – You know honestly, your Mick Jagger question did bother me. And I thought to myself, NO I won’t be bothered with the Union Jack. Then told myself am I exactly the hypocrite BW was suggesting? There must be more to it. I then realize who in the WORLD DOES NOT know Mick Jagger, the Brit and “original” frontman of the Rolling Stones. Has AP reached an equal fame or worldwide acceptance as Mick? Was this question really apples to apples? I then realized I should play Devil’s Advocate. Now my question to you is (that is if you are in the Philippines). WHAT IF, a Mexican or Singaporean, or an Indian or a Chinese singer comes to the Philippines with a reputation to be equal or better than Martin Nievera or Gary valenciano or Lea Salonga. He or She has a concert in the PI singing the PI singer’s songs with a contingent of his or her countrymen waving their flag. How would you feel? I guess like BW said, we may never find a winner we just have to hope for the best for AP!

  54. Enough of this, bottom line is flag waving is a protected right (as well as flag burning, I think). This is America, it’s a free country. Do not police our few kababayans who want to exercise their rights. I guess that’s why we’re here in the US because we love this democracy. If you don’t like it go to China.

  55. Henry – How would that Pinoy Pride play. I bet you Mr. US Citizen, Red Sox fan, Philippine patriot would be standing in the front row with a banner he bought from e-bay with words written We love you Gary or Martin or Lea. Kiss my bleep! And that is my 2 centavos. I thought I’d say that to make me at leas a little patriotic!

  56. Honestly, it really depends on where the venue is. Also, there is nothing wrong if the motivation to object on flag waving is respect for others.

    There are narrow minded, opinionated people like Ayawgloria who starts insulting people calling them names. If these are the people who wave the Pinoy flag -I don’t know. No wonder why Pinas cannot progress because of such type of loser mentality.

  57. Guys, thanks very much for your insighful comments but I’m afraid I’d have to sign off this thread. I think we pretty much covered the issue and heard all sides.

  58. Somehow I agree with Luigi. Imagine an American born singer performing songs once performed by an individual with the same rep as a Gary V, waving an American flag in concert while in the Philippines, as if to say “Yup, it’s all about the good ol’ US of A” – just doesn’t seem right. I feel that If I have to ask myself if it is or isn’t appropriate, that in itself tells me that it probably isn’t….like so many of us, I am so proud of AP that it literally does brings me to tears when I watch him on YT… I just don’t get the flag waving part- it seems counterproductive, however significant or insignificant, to Journey’s success and the success of AP for that matter…I assume that most people that attend the concerts know he is Filipino; this alone makes me proud. (As far as Mexican flags in SoCal, if you live in LA you pretty much live in Mexico, don’t you?) Flag waving just seems like something better suited for when you prepare for battle, not music. Who knows, maybe I feel this way because I’m American born, I don’t know. But I can tell you this: My parents battled to come to America with the hope that their children would find opportunity, etc… – not once did they ever need to announce their pride; I am proud of who they are because of what they’ve accomplished. I don’t ever recall my parents ever needing to wave our flag for others to know who they are and what they represent. Others identify with who they are “because of WHO they are,” honest, hard working people that just happen to be Filipino.

  59. your last message BW:

    Guys, thanks very much for your insighful comments but I’m afraid I’d have to sign off this thread. I think we pretty much covered the issue and heard all sides.

    or maybe you just couldn’t take the pressure from your critics….. it’s part of your review feedbacks, don’t feel bad about it…… people who are making this “Flag Waving” an issue may have been suffering from “ADHD” in filipino, “KSP” hahahahaha, I know you won’t post this coz you’re a coward……

  60. Taksilbayan –

    You can’t get enough of me eh? Up to now, you’re still rattling my horns.

    As far as I know, I’m still BW, not like your who is hiding under 2 aliases also posting as Ayawgloria using the same U.S.( Illinois) based IP address.. Before you accuse people of cowardice, check yourself because you are guilty of lying and blatant two-facedness.

    The reason why I briefly paused the thread was because posters were hurling not too kind words with each other – not with me. If you check the last few comments, you will know what I mean. This is my blog and not yours and I decide to pause and reopen a thread, what post goes into waste, especially those that contain offensive language. In case you are ignorant of this, this is the time to put it in your skull. If you think the reason why I paused my blog was because I was intimidated by you? Huh?? You have a better chance of fucking a flying donut than getting me scared with your senseless and pedestrian posts , believe me.

    STRAIGHT TALK only means people get out of their comfort zones and air their opinions out but without getting offensive and bigoted . You don’t come into my blog telling me what to talk about, dismissing the topic as insignificant, with me making a big deal about it. You’ve seen so many posters sharing differing opinions but your twisted stance is harassing me for discussing the issue of flag waving as if it is a sacrilege. Who are you to dictate what people want to discuss in cyberspace?

    If you think those flag waving Pinoy govt officials paying $2,000 for ringside seats at a Pacquiao fight are patriotic, maybe you also condone their sinister habit of ripping the government coffers and leaving millions of Pinoys in abject poverty. My understanding of patriotism goes way beyond your shoddy version of cheerleading and flag waving. If you want my view on patriotism from a previous post here it is.

    https://bwzone.wordpress.com/?s=bounds+of+patriotism

    If you think my flag waving post is anti-Pinoy, how come my post was linked with an Ariel Pineda fan club website? Would they link my blog if I was disrespecting and insulting the AP and the Pinoy nation? I see hits coming from that website every now and then but none of them had cursed me except you which now makes me think that you don’t know your ass from your front and haven’t really understood my post.

    Here’s the website URL

    http://arnelfans.com/2008/08/12/flag-waving-at-journey-concert/

    Do me a favor. Email the administrator of the aforesaid AP fan club website, tell them I’m an asshole and ask them to de-link my URL from their website so you can satisfy your Taliban-like fanaticism with AP who you exult and revere as God here on earth. Just DO IT if makes you happy. You just might have an orgasm doing so. I’m living an exciting life and couldn’t care less. Believe me I won’t trade my daily nose picking ritual for your AP fetish.

    You had your say and I had my say so from now on, quit bothering me with your ADHD crap and foolhardy comments. I have a blog and would like to move on with my posts and not spend too much time on this thread which had been smeared by your dullness anyways. I like people who comment sensibly and have no time for hecklers like you.

  61. I am an OFW more than 15yrs…
    My own thought of this thread is that all pinoys who posted here showed the typical pinoy minds. Commonly, we are not so proud of our country because of poverty and lousy leaders, etc, but still we want to protect or not to put our country more in deep shit and also sometimes we even don’t want to talk about it with other nationalities. We are longing for our country to have an economic progress and international identity big time. All of these of course reflects to ourselves. Some posters here wants to discipline or educate his people, Others just don’t want to talk about it or make an issue out of it which could only put our country more in shame. To those who want to wave the flag, they just want to express themselves and thought, despite of what our country is facing at least we have this product that we could be proud of. It will take decades to change these minds as long as our country is still in poverty. Only my humble opinion.PEACE TO ALL

  62. WHO CARES??? You know what, in UK, it’s even worse but people don’t mind (even the other nationalities)because it’s their way of expressing their love for their country. When it wins in a game or when it’s football time, you’ll see flags everywhere. They even buy big ones and hang it in front of their houses and pubs. Why do people have to make a big issue out of it? Let them be! Mind your own business. I bet even the rest of the guys in Journey don’t mind at all. They sleep well while their fans argue about a simple flag issue.

  63. WHOCARES –

    There seems to be no issue with flag waving in sports events esp if players wear their country’s colors. Happens all the time during the Soccer World Cup – even here in Canada, immigrants fly the flag of countries they support but only while the game lasts.

    Check this forum out. I took this discussion to this thread.

    http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=94569&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45

    Some people would like to talk about it though with no intent of killing each other 🙂

    Appreciate your comments.

  64. Not a big deal. They can wave it all they want, just don’t do it to the point of being obnoxious. Sometimes when you are blocking somebody else’s view, you have to be careful, they paid money to see the concert not a flag.

    I think Filipinos can learn how to cool it sometimes. It is so obvious that we are “kulang sa pansin” sometimes. We need to chill, just let Arnel do his thing. He is doing a very good job without any Filipino getting too hysterical about it. Plus, we need to remember there are a lot of other Filipinos doing a very remarkable job around the world…the only difference is they are not rockin’ with Journey.

  65. flag waving is harmless? yes you’re right, but that is not my problem, my issue is you and the rest of the filipino people, who’s making the flagwaving an issue with your stupid postings…… 2008 is almost over and with the Tour too, and you’re still talking about the flagwaving from their U.S. concert last march? I mean, why? The answer is simple, you guys just need attention….. and so what if I’m from illinois, are you threatening me or something? are you sure I am ayawgloria? hahaha, we are just both using thesame computer, nice guess huh? or shall we say, Levis? hahahahaha

  66. flag waving is harmless? yes you’re right, but that is not my problem, my issue is you and the rest of the filipino people, who’s making the flagwaving an issue with your stupid postings…… 2008 is almost over and with the Tour too, and you’re still talking about the flagwaving from their U.S. concert last march? I mean, why? The answer is simple, you guys just need attention….. and so what if I’m from illinois, are you threatening me or something? are you sure I am ayawgloria? hahaha, we are just both using thesame computer, nice guess huh? or shall we say, Levis? hahahahaha

  67. “Ok, flag waving is innocuous” . It also means
    “OK, flag waving is harmless”.

    why do you have to emphasize that? we are not questioning the flag waving, we are questioning the issue that you would like to point out:

    Question : was the flag waving appropriate ?

    Let’s delineate a concert from a boxing match, where the protagonists are representing their respective country’s flag. They walk to the boxing ring wrapped in their country’s flags. In fact the represented countries are honored by singing their national anthems prior to the fight. Here’s the main difference – a boxing match is a competition – a concert isn’t.

    we know the difference of course, we are not stupid, but why do you have to point this out?
    Again, the answer is simple: ATTENTION
    what else could it be? or ADHD? or KSP?

  68. you’re the one who can’t understand…..

  69. now you want us to leave you alone? remove it then, if you have the right, then I do have my rights Too….

  70. Ow deleting my comments? you’re good at it huh?

    you’re asking me to stop bothering you? well, it also means that you’re a losser, no matter how many times you’ll delete, I’m coming back to post it:

    flag waving is harmless? yes you’re right, but that is not my problem, my issue is you and the rest of the filipino people, who are making the flagwaving an issue with your stupid postings…… 2008 is almost over and with the Tour too, and you’re still talking about the flagwaving from their U.S. concert last march? I mean, why? The answer is simple, you guys just need attention….. and so what if I’m from illinois, are you threatening me or something? are you sure I am ayawgloria? hahaha, we are just both using thesame computer, nice guess huh? or shall we say, Levis? hahahahaha

  71. Ow deleting my comments? you’re good at it huh?

    you’re asking me to stop bothering you? well, it also means that you’re a losser, no matter how many times you’ll delete, I’m coming back to post it:

    flag waving is harmless? yes you’re right, but that is not my problem, my issue is you and the rest of the filipino people, who are making the flagwaving an issue with your stupid postings…… 2008 is almost over and with the Tour too, and you’re still talking about the flagwaving from their U.S. concert last march? I mean, why? The answer is simple, you guys just need attention….. and so what if I’m from illinois, are you threatening me or something? are you sure I am ayawgloria? hahaha, we are just both using thesame computer, nice guess huh? or shall we say, Levis? hahahahaha

    1111

  72. flag waving is harmless? yes you’re right, but that is not my problem, my issue is you and the rest of the filipino people, who are making the flagwaving an issue with your stupid postings…… 2008 is almost over and with the Tour too, and you’re still talking about the flagwaving from their U.S. concert last march? I mean, why? The answer is simple, you guys just need attention….. and so what if I’m from illinois, are you threatening me or something? are you sure I am ayawgloria? hahaha, we are just both using thesame computer, nice guess huh? or shall we say, Levis? hahahahaha

  73. losser!

  74. Takslibayan/Ayawgloria

    http://uk.youtube.com/ayawgloria

    we’ll well well.. Looks like you wanted to have your own monologue in my blog. Posting 10 comments?? After all it is you who want attention at the expense of my blog. duh 😦

    If your read the comments, people were talking about flag waving in general and not only the Vegas concert. I’ll leave your posts for the world to judge the shallowness of your thinking.

    As I said, I have nothing more to say. We talk about flag waving here and if u don’t like our our conversation go away and don’t come back. If you think we are stupid in discussing flag waving – that’s your opinion there’s nothing much we can do about that. I don’t see any reason for your to keep coming back to hear something we already know. You’re like a broken record.

    Btw you spelled loser wrongly. Before u try to debate with me get ur spelling right because it is downright embarrasing duh. My grade 2 daughter can spell the word better than you , yikes 😦

  75. Just dropped by to check if you have a new post. Boy, I can how you had to deal with thick headed people BW.

    I had a chuckle with the spelling joke though haha 🙂

  76. what is wrong with talking about flag waving at a Journey concert? I needed attention because I posted about it? LOL.

    This guy Taksilbayan must be on drugs or something. what a moronic, idiotic comment.

  77. Flag-waving is cool. It’s nice and very positive. Just enjoy the music.

  78. […] and more Filipinos can’t manage to hide their poser buffoonery.  Read more about flag waving here and […]

  79. “If he is that good and he is damn good, why wasn’t he a superstar?”

    To answer this question, it is because Philippine entertainment prefer people with looks than talent.

    Even James of moymoy palaboy sort of half jokes about it when he told his story of auditioning for star in a million. He was constantly ignored because he wasn’t guapo or mestizo looking. he joked that ‘dapat pala doon kelangan guapo ka’.

    Although I do get the point of misplaced nationalism, sometimes you guys go down to crab mentality. Talakangka ba kumgaba.

    It’s such a shame that it takes a guitarist of a legendary band to take notice of his talent. Shows that we can’t appreciate the talents we have here. Shows that Filipinos prefer brainless and talentless though goodlooking people over people with talent – goodlooking or not.

    The funny thing is that, even the consul that approved
    Arnel’s visa even believed in his talent. Yup, even before his Journey stardom, the consul have been watching Arnel perform with his former bandmates and even before Arnel applied for a visa, he was already amazed. it was so much of a stroke of luck for Arnel. God bless him

  80. Pointless and Unjustifiable topic so with the blogger who wrote this stupid blog. Get a life and mind your own career. Nothing wrong with waving any kind of FLAG!!!! KSP…..

    • I think I know you. I urge you to read my post and tell me if I ever said that FLAG WAVING IS WRONG.

      My life is great and what sets me apart from you is I am not a jockstrap smelling, Arnel nuthugger like you. If that’s your career – go ahead. I admire Arnel too but I don’t bend over…. like you do 🙂 Worship Arnel – marry him.. whatever. I wish him success too. Hey – leave my blog alone if you don’t have any constructive things to say. This post is old – almost 2 years now. Get it over with and move on with your life. Bitterness kills.

  81. waiting moderation? well, that’s censorship, approving comments that only agrees with your stupid and self serving opinion…..

    • I guess your definition of Stupid Opinion is one that does not agree with yours ?? Now – did I censor your post ??

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